1 00:00:03,274 --> 00:00:05,294 [music] 2 00:00:11,790 --> 00:00:13,810 [music] 3 00:00:14,719 --> 00:00:19,600 Welcome to the show and I appreciate you 4 00:00:17,359 --> 00:00:23,119 coming on today, sir. Uh this is one of 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:25,840 the episodes of Pale Blue Nexus and uh 6 00:00:23,119 --> 00:00:27,920 we'll go with Victor for now and I 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:30,640 welcome and thank you and please give 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,719 yourself an introduction and uh let us 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,920 know about your practice and your 10 00:00:32,719 --> 00:00:38,559 project and basically about yourself. 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:42,320 Oh, thank you. Thank you. First of all, 12 00:00:38,559 --> 00:00:45,760 thank you for uh this invitation and uh 13 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:49,920 I know your uh channel, your podcast. I 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:52,239 know it quite uh well now and uh it's 15 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:55,440 you know I know about you as well. I 16 00:00:52,239 --> 00:00:58,800 don't know how many people uh uh know 17 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:01,840 you but uh and your uh business history 18 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:04,479 but it's quite impressive there. So 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:07,840 thank you very much for this invitation. 20 00:01:04,479 --> 00:01:12,479 you are former IBM, you are former uh uh 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:16,080 JP Morgan, you you invented uh uh ways 22 00:01:12,479 --> 00:01:18,320 of business and so this is quite quite a 23 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:22,400 privilege for me. So thank you very much 24 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:27,040 for uh this talk between us uh uh today. 25 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:30,080 As I uh have already told you before 26 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:33,520 this and you have already uh suggested 27 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:36,640 as well this is a talk and so there's no 28 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:40,000 media training involved in it and so I 29 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:42,720 don't know what your uh specific uh uh 30 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:45,920 questions will be and so this is quite 31 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:49,040 uh spontaneous uh as a conversation and 32 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:53,280 so it's it's very good uh for once it's 33 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:56,880 very good to to have a a a good talk uh 34 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:59,439 um recorded talk like this one. So, 35 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:03,200 thank you very much about myself as you 36 00:01:59,439 --> 00:02:06,320 asked. My name is Victor Luli and and if 37 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:09,039 you cannot uh pronounce uh Luli, that's 38 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,120 that's okay as well. So, it's Luli, but 39 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:14,720 it's because it's Italian, you know. I 40 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:18,800 I'm uh uh I'm Italian and I'm talking to 41 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:22,959 you uh today from S. Paulo, Brazil, uh 42 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:27,680 from one of our offices. And uh as a as 43 00:02:22,959 --> 00:02:31,599 um uh uh my business activity I I am 44 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:34,640 managing partner uh of Lulia the Lulia 45 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:37,760 group that is an organization that 46 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:40,959 operates uh globally within the scopes 47 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:44,000 of investments consultancy and corporate 48 00:02:40,959 --> 00:02:47,120 or large large scale uh corporate 49 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,640 training. So this is this is me uh 50 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,440 Johan. 51 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:54,480 Anything you want to know uh more about 52 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:56,879 myself and my activities, I'm here to 53 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,720 answer to your questions. 54 00:02:56,879 --> 00:03:01,040 >> Yeah, you're you're a fascinating guy 55 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:04,560 and um one of the things I'm I'm 56 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:06,480 fascinated about is your research and 57 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:09,519 your work in 58 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:12,239 >> sort of like the neuroscience. 59 00:03:09,519 --> 00:03:16,800 Um, and we talked about that on our when 60 00:03:12,239 --> 00:03:19,360 we first met and I find that quite um, 61 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:22,400 interesting. You know, the mammal brain 62 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:24,560 is just very complex and we don't know 63 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:27,440 much about it. Actually, we do know a 64 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:31,040 lot about it. I just don't think it's 65 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:34,480 much into the forefront of popular sort 66 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:36,000 of uh, knowledge. Uh, 67 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,239 what would you think about that? Like is 68 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:42,000 that a is that a true statement? Yes, 69 00:03:38,239 --> 00:03:45,040 it's it's absolutely true. Actually, I I 70 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:48,879 like to mention it because there is a 71 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:51,680 huge gap between what we know uh from a 72 00:03:48,879 --> 00:03:55,360 um you know in the in the scientific 73 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:59,280 realm and scientific context uh 74 00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:04,319 academically speaking. We know very much 75 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:06,959 already about uh how our brain uh works 76 00:04:04,319 --> 00:04:09,599 and uh it's you know it it gained 77 00:04:06,959 --> 00:04:13,840 traction from the 70s actually because 78 00:04:09,599 --> 00:04:17,120 there was a a certain uh uh growth from 79 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:20,079 the uh psychological uh studies and 80 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:25,120 psychological point of view um 81 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:29,600 technology as well. Um so we actually we 82 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:33,600 know uh a lot about how our brain works 83 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:37,600 and um but you know the the the so the 84 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:41,520 public let's call it this way the naive 85 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:46,639 public um doesn't know about it you know 86 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:50,720 does not know uh how they are they are I 87 00:04:46,639 --> 00:04:54,639 think the the most complex uh uh part of 88 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:56,720 who they are works and uh so this is 89 00:04:54,639 --> 00:05:00,160 quite interesting and I like to mention 90 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:06,080 it because you know we we we bridged 91 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:09,440 that gap. So as a company this I can say 92 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:12,400 it uh with quite calmly you know quite 93 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:16,000 uh specifically this is one of our 94 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:19,280 biggest uh uh competitive advantages 95 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:24,639 because we we we take something that is 96 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:28,960 uh uh very very uh specific and we we 97 00:05:24,639 --> 00:05:31,520 create a link between our uh brain our 98 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:35,360 mental dynamics scientifically ally 99 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:37,520 speaking to a uh business practice 100 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:40,639 actually and so we apply it in 101 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:44,960 everything we do and everything we are. 102 00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:48,960 But you asking me about my uh personal 103 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:53,440 uh research and what how how I arrived 104 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:56,639 here uh uh probably so about my history 105 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:59,600 from an academic point of view. I 106 00:05:56,639 --> 00:06:05,039 started studying uh uh politics 107 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:10,080 sciences. you know, I I I have uh my so 108 00:06:05,039 --> 00:06:12,960 Italian origin and Italian uh uh person 109 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:17,360 from from you know I have always studied 110 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:21,039 in Italy and so as a from as a kid and 111 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:25,120 so the first approach uh Italy gives you 112 00:06:21,039 --> 00:06:28,560 to to knowledge is um and from this 113 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:31,680 specific knowledge is from philosophy 114 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:35,600 actually. And so I found myself very 115 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:39,680 very very uh um let's say in love maybe 116 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:44,960 with the rhetorical aspects of knowledge 117 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:48,880 and uh so from this on I I understood as 118 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:53,120 you know during my uh growth my my 119 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:56,080 personal uh intellectual also growth I I 120 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,759 understood the relationship between uh 121 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,520 um 122 00:06:57,759 --> 00:07:03,599 you know rhetoric 123 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:06,720 and uh uh behavior etc. and the use of 124 00:07:03,599 --> 00:07:09,840 it uh in a in a in the most practical 125 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:13,199 way. Let's I I remember I I was 126 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:18,960 fascinated for example with uh uh the 127 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:20,720 speech of uh Maneno agre who addressed a 128 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,919 crowd 129 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:27,680 was during a rebellion and he addressed 130 00:07:23,919 --> 00:07:31,440 the crow a crowd from a a hill in Rome 131 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:34,479 and uh he managed to to to address them 132 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:37,759 in a strategic way. And so this is I 133 00:07:34,479 --> 00:07:42,800 since I remember this is this was one of 134 00:07:37,759 --> 00:07:46,960 my first uh you know visions about uh 135 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:50,960 how was the relationship between uh the 136 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:54,879 rhetorical knowledge and a practical uh 137 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:57,360 uh application was. And so this is just 138 00:07:54,879 --> 00:08:00,479 you know I I went to uh uh ancient 139 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:03,360 history now uh uh ancient Rome now just 140 00:08:00,479 --> 00:08:06,319 for you to understand I have always 141 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:09,919 pursued this you know I have always been 142 00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:13,039 in love with with uh this kind of of 143 00:08:09,919 --> 00:08:16,560 knowledge this type of knowledge and so 144 00:08:13,039 --> 00:08:19,919 uh my first because of this my first uh 145 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:22,800 uh field of study was uh political 146 00:08:19,919 --> 00:08:26,960 sciences and began 147 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:30,800 with a uh during a a huge series of 148 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:35,680 personal events as well as as anyone uh 149 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:39,200 I decided to study uh psychology as well 150 00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:43,200 and uh from psychology I went directly 151 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:44,800 to neurossychology and cognitive uh 152 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:49,680 neuroscience 153 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:55,600 and so and maybe uh um many people do 154 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:59,279 not know this But uh uh there are very 155 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:02,399 many levels of uh neuroscientific 156 00:08:59,279 --> 00:09:04,000 uh knowledge and the the cognitive 157 00:09:02,399 --> 00:09:07,440 neuroscientific 158 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:10,080 the cognitive uh neuroscience one is 159 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:13,200 about the way is as hierarch 160 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:14,720 hierarchically speaking is the most 161 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:18,000 advanced one. 162 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:22,240 >> Mhm. because it studies the way our 163 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:25,120 brain creates our uh mind uh uh 164 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:28,560 experience let's say and so I got 165 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:32,560 fascinated by this this uh uh kind of 166 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:35,279 study and um and when I started it I was 167 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:40,000 already a an entrepreneur you know I was 168 00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:43,600 a already a businessman and uh but you 169 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:46,720 know I got I think that period that 170 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:51,519 period of time in my life was the one 171 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:54,560 where when I maybe it's just arrogantly 172 00:09:51,519 --> 00:09:58,240 speaking but it was my my intelligence 173 00:09:54,560 --> 00:10:00,160 speak uh uh uh in in my life you know 174 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,880 and so 175 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:05,519 I felt like this because it was very 176 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:08,959 stimulating for me and so I had the 177 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:13,440 privilege to to to perceive this and to 178 00:10:08,959 --> 00:10:18,079 to make the most of it and um and so I I 179 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:22,240 had uh uh privileged uh access uh to 180 00:10:18,079 --> 00:10:26,320 something that was my passion and and 181 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:29,440 have always been since then. And um so 182 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:33,200 the research came uh from this from this 183 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:36,240 period of time. And I think the the most 184 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:39,360 uh important line of research of that 185 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:43,120 period that that I faced and I had 186 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:46,720 access to uh was the the relation 187 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:47,279 between the brain and consciousness. 188 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,519 >> Mhm. 189 00:10:47,279 --> 00:10:54,959 >> And so I studied it uh uh with 190 00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:58,399 proper lines of uh research 191 00:10:54,959 --> 00:11:01,040 um from a scientific point of view. So 192 00:10:58,399 --> 00:11:03,920 using a scientical approach, we we 193 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:08,880 studied uh we studied uh um 194 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:13,440 consciousness through uh specific fMRI 195 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:17,040 uh uh protocols, MEG, MEG, MEG uh 196 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:20,560 protocols etc. So it was absolutely 197 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:22,800 interesting and uh fascinating for me 198 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:27,920 and from that 199 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:32,720 I created uh uh our lines of uh research 200 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:34,240 in the in in in through uh LUI group and 201 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,200 neuromarketing 202 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:40,079 uh etc. everything we do uh from that 203 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:42,480 point of view and so from this you know 204 00:11:40,079 --> 00:11:47,120 I I have a a third line of study that 205 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:50,399 that came after was finance and so I had 206 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:53,200 these these three uh fields uh covered 207 00:11:50,399 --> 00:11:57,760 let's say academically speaking and uh 208 00:11:53,200 --> 00:12:02,399 but you know from uh neuroscience I I 209 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:05,920 applied it into neuromarketing and from 210 00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:11,120 this specifically and my personal uh 211 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:14,160 business experience. I I created a a a 212 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:16,800 conceptual framework. It's a I think 213 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:19,760 it's the conceptual framework of 214 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:24,079 everything uh we do at Lully Group that 215 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:26,160 is named commercially speaking is named 216 00:12:24,079 --> 00:12:29,279 u neuroinductive 217 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:32,480 practice. And so this is this is somehow 218 00:12:29,279 --> 00:12:35,200 the the story and where where it comes 219 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:39,200 from. I think I wanted to explain this 220 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:42,880 in a in a the simplest way possible uh 221 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:46,000 because of you know the people uh I 222 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:48,079 don't know how much uh they could uh uh 223 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:52,320 understand the the neuroscientific 224 00:12:48,079 --> 00:12:54,800 principles but the way we we we 225 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:58,959 apply it to business you know it's quite 226 00:12:54,800 --> 00:13:03,360 it's quite explicit and um so this this 227 00:12:58,959 --> 00:13:07,279 is this is uh what I do and um what 228 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:10,160 where this knowledge uh comes from. I I 229 00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:10,800 think it's was was it clear? Was it 230 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,000 understandable? 231 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:16,880 >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think like my 232 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:21,680 audience and myself would be interested 233 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:24,480 in knowing how can we in your academic 234 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:26,720 background and your research and and 235 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:30,240 your experience 236 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:33,360 dealing with founders and CEOs 237 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:36,000 um and seeing how businesses play out. 238 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:39,279 What are some of the things that you 239 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:43,440 would recommend or you would see like a 240 00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:46,560 lot of these business owners and CEOs 241 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:49,680 don't apply on a regular basis that you 242 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:51,200 would like them to apply? Like 243 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:53,200 are is there something that you can see 244 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,880 in a CEO and says, "Okay, that guy's 245 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,639 going to be successful. He's going to 246 00:13:54,880 --> 00:14:00,160 have a successful company." Is there a 247 00:13:56,639 --> 00:14:03,279 pattern there or is it largely based on 248 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:06,639 an individual by-individual basis? 249 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:09,680 You know it's there is a pattern 250 00:14:06,639 --> 00:14:12,800 actually and uh if you ask me to 251 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:16,959 identify it to make it explicit to your 252 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:19,680 audience we have to start from the the 253 00:14:16,959 --> 00:14:23,839 let's say conceptually speaking we have 254 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:26,959 in everything we do if we apply this uh 255 00:14:23,839 --> 00:14:30,480 concepts I I'm telling you about 256 00:14:26,959 --> 00:14:33,680 uh um to for example we apply to 257 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:36,800 leadership we apply to sales we apply to 258 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:40,320 negotiation etc etc. We understand that 259 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:43,519 we have elements 260 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:47,279 that we begin from. And so element for 261 00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:49,680 example uh in sales is your product you 262 00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:53,120 know and I think the the the most 263 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:55,279 important ability we have in from from 264 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,680 this specific point of view and in 265 00:14:55,279 --> 00:15:00,000 general in business is the ability to 266 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:04,000 create 267 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:07,279 a a link between and a a a proper and 268 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:11,760 instrumental link between what we have 269 00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:15,839 as an element and the benefits 270 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:20,160 that that element uh uh create. 271 00:15:15,839 --> 00:15:22,959 Okay. So uh um this this what does it 272 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:28,000 mean that we have uh uh uh something 273 00:15:22,959 --> 00:15:31,199 that by itself is just uh a a material 274 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:34,399 uh um you know element. So something 275 00:15:31,199 --> 00:15:38,160 that we have also abstract one like in 276 00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:41,760 leadership. So the the concept of uh 277 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:46,399 what we do etc. and to transform all 278 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:50,480 this into a a a benefit. But the benefit 279 00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:53,680 and now uh we have a a um you know an 280 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:58,160 upgrade uh of what I'm telling you about 281 00:15:53,680 --> 00:16:01,600 the the the benefit must be appliable to 282 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:03,920 our interlocutor 283 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:08,560 that can be a business partner that can 284 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:13,120 be uh uh you know um to whom you are 285 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:16,720 addressing your uh elevator speak speech 286 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:20,560 uh for example. It's it's your pitch uh 287 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:23,040 and um and or your customer, you know, 288 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:25,519 it's it's the same principle there. is a 289 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:29,279 principle of influence 290 00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:32,480 but le let's say uh uh funnily speaking 291 00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:35,440 it's uh uh um business 292 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:38,320 you know uh uh on steroids let's say 293 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,480 because yes it's it's funny to say but 294 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:44,880 to to tell you like this but you know 295 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:47,519 you what what is the the main uh feature 296 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:52,160 there that you understand your 297 00:16:47,519 --> 00:16:56,320 interlocutor and you apply what you have 298 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:58,079 into his priorities. So I I think the 299 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:02,320 proper way to address it is to 300 00:16:58,079 --> 00:17:07,600 understand that uh the characteristic 301 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:11,199 that defines successful uh business uh 302 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:13,760 uh men or business people uh like the 303 00:17:11,199 --> 00:17:16,640 ones you mentioned before is this 304 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:21,439 paradigm shift. You know what you are 305 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:24,480 and what you have does not uh uh is not 306 00:17:21,439 --> 00:17:27,600 that important. 307 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:30,640 But what you create from the and the 308 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:34,400 link you you can create from what you 309 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:38,960 have at your disposal and the beneficial 310 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:40,559 aspect of it to your interlocutor is 311 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,919 fundamental 312 00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:47,520 and it is the basis for anything we do 313 00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:51,440 from a business point of view and so I 314 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:55,280 identify uh uh this importance let's say 315 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:58,640 uh this successful uh pattern 316 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:03,919 from specifically this. So uh uh this 317 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:07,120 ability and uh okay it can be uh taught 318 00:18:03,919 --> 00:18:10,720 it can be uh you know learned let's say 319 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:15,360 but but um you know many people don't 320 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:18,559 understand that this is the the the the 321 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:21,280 main framework from which uh start 322 00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:26,080 anything you do in business and this is 323 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:29,679 also what uh uh I do is daily on a daily 324 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:34,320 basis you know the the ability I think 325 00:18:29,679 --> 00:18:38,640 if if you asked me if I have superpowers 326 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:42,559 uh uh I would answer they are not super 327 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:44,880 they are very very human uh uh human 328 00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:48,480 powers and 329 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:51,200 that's it you know that that's these I'm 330 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:54,640 telling you about now 331 00:18:51,200 --> 00:19:00,559 there's something that I've noticed 332 00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:05,360 uh call it just an instinct. But today 333 00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:08,000 with the rise of AI, there is a lack of 334 00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:11,440 there's there's an explosion of product. 335 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:15,280 There's an explosion of content. 336 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:19,440 And the one thing that's lessened 337 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:21,039 because of that is trust between 338 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:25,200 customer 339 00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:27,120 and the vendor. So there's a lack of 340 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:30,400 trust. There's a recession in trust 341 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:32,799 happening right now and that's very 342 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,640 interesting. There's a lot of people 343 00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:37,039 creating different types of products. 344 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,280 They're great products, 345 00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:41,120 but there's a lack of trust happening 346 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,280 and it it's one of the reasons that I 347 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:46,080 produce this podcast and I've always 348 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,799 done authentic sort of conversations 349 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:53,200 like this. Do you notice that too as 350 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:54,559 well? Uh like have you noticed people 351 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:58,320 are a little bit more skeptical? 352 00:19:54,559 --> 00:20:01,200 Customers are skeptical. Cold emails are 353 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:03,440 not as effective. Certain certain things 354 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,440 that you've done in the past may not 355 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:09,039 work today 356 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:13,120 is um you know I I completely agree with 357 00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:17,440 your point of view actually uh it can be 358 00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:20,320 uh directly linked to what uh uh I told 359 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:24,559 you before. uh I have just uh uh told 360 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:27,919 you about uh the the necessity 361 00:20:24,559 --> 00:20:31,760 of the creation of this link between 362 00:20:27,919 --> 00:20:34,880 what you have at your disposal and the 363 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:38,240 beneficial aspect uh uh to your 364 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:40,720 interlocutor. And so 365 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:44,159 something like this 366 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:48,159 demands a level of specificity 367 00:20:44,159 --> 00:20:52,320 that is huge, that is very very high. 368 00:20:48,159 --> 00:20:55,760 And so this is why AI 369 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:58,640 does not uh uh apply perfectly to the 370 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:03,600 level of specificity 371 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:05,919 you have to to gain in terms of dialogue 372 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:08,480 in terms of everything you have and the 373 00:21:05,919 --> 00:21:11,360 way you propose it. And and there's a 374 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:15,840 reason why because AI first of all the 375 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:18,640 the the eye part in AI is not a proper 376 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:22,960 you know it's not intelligence 377 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:26,720 okay it's a very effective way to manage 378 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:29,200 and to uh uh elaborate data okay but 379 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:33,280 it's not an intelligence the level of 380 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:36,880 intelligence uh human uh uh humans have 381 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,360 is absolutely uh superior to that. 382 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,320 >> Mhm. 383 00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:44,880 >> Okay. And so this is something there's a 384 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:47,600 only who who understand uh human beings 385 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:51,360 can understand this and so properly I 386 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:54,240 mean so uh neuroscience tells you this 387 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:58,880 there there's no way it it it cannot 388 00:21:54,240 --> 00:22:02,960 tell you this and so uh um the the level 389 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:07,039 of specificity in the link between who 390 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:10,640 you are and your interlocutor 391 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:13,360 cannot not be determined by a system 392 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:16,080 that works on average 393 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:22,320 or averages. Okay? And that's that's 394 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:28,159 exactly what AI uh does. you know uh uh 395 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:30,960 AI takes a huge amount of of data. 396 00:22:28,159 --> 00:22:34,000 it par parameterize 397 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:38,080 uh parameterizes it 398 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:41,520 um and creates averages from it and so 399 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:44,720 you have huge huge batches of data 400 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:48,000 regarding a a topic regarding anything 401 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:52,159 you want to and from the internet and 402 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:55,440 create something that is based on a huge 403 00:22:52,159 --> 00:22:58,480 average of it this absolutely makes 404 00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:00,720 sense because what I see AI companies 405 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,840 doing large language models and such. 406 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:07,760 It's like they're trying to put more 407 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:10,559 data and specificity inside their models 408 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:13,360 in order to mimic the the average level 409 00:23:10,559 --> 00:23:14,400 of intelligence that that goes up. But I 410 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:16,799 don't think 411 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,600 >> it's the contrary. 412 00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:21,200 >> Yeah, it is the contrary because it's 413 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,720 things are always shifting and things 414 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,720 are always moving. There's different 415 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:28,400 things in the world that would shift. 416 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:30,159 there's uh narratives that will change 417 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,559 and it's hard to keep up with that. 418 00:23:30,159 --> 00:23:35,280 Yeah. 419 00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:38,080 >> Yes. Actually uh you know if you use uh 420 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:41,039 uh artificial intelligence as a as a 421 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:44,480 specific tool I mean you have a 422 00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:50,000 framework you have a a paradigm 423 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:52,159 that you want to uh work upon through 424 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:55,200 artificial intelligence. Okay, let's 425 00:23:52,159 --> 00:23:59,039 see. For example, in Formula 1, I talk 426 00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:02,640 uh to uh Formula 1 uh managers, for 427 00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:05,600 example, and uh the way they use 428 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:09,600 artificial intelligence is through uh 429 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:12,799 something they that they uh uh start 430 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:15,679 from that is theirs that's you know 431 00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:19,600 that's that's specifically uh determined 432 00:24:15,679 --> 00:24:22,400 by them and use AI as a tool. It's just 433 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,640 an example, you know, because uh um 434 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,679 Formula 1, for example, as as any 435 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:31,279 business uh uh is determined by the 436 00:24:27,679 --> 00:24:33,360 level of of efficiency uh uh of what 437 00:24:31,279 --> 00:24:37,919 they do. But if you if you have a 438 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:39,919 company and you work on huge amounts of 439 00:24:37,919 --> 00:24:44,640 of data, 440 00:24:39,919 --> 00:24:48,320 you cannot expect uh uh but to to create 441 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:53,120 uh averages. And so the the the the 442 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:56,159 moment you address to a customer or to 443 00:24:53,120 --> 00:25:00,400 you know a business partner etc is based 444 00:24:56,159 --> 00:25:04,400 on average. And so this is this is quite 445 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:08,159 uh uh dangerous from a specificity and 446 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,840 uh uh uh efficiency point of view that 447 00:25:08,159 --> 00:25:11,360 business demands. 448 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:16,400 >> Yeah. 449 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:18,559 Yeah. And absolutely I I think there is 450 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,640 a a level of specificity that it's 451 00:25:18,559 --> 00:25:23,360 always changing 452 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,840 and it's getting harder and harder to 453 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:29,039 persuade and 454 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:31,120 >> persuasion is is is ahead of the curve 455 00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:33,440 when it comes to maybe they should come 456 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:35,120 up with artificial persuasion. I don't 457 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,679 think it can happen 458 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:40,240 >> you know uh uh just okay let's let's 459 00:25:37,679 --> 00:25:43,039 make an example about this specifically 460 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,720 you start from a knowledge that is based 461 00:25:43,039 --> 00:25:47,200 for example marketing 462 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:49,840 >> okay you start from something that 463 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:52,320 conceptually speaking is the uh uh 464 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:55,679 unique selling proposal 465 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:58,640 okay that is something that you and only 466 00:25:55,679 --> 00:26:01,679 you uh can deliver 467 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:05,840 okay to the public to the to your market 468 00:26:01,679 --> 00:26:10,720 etc and you uh uh are aware of it and 469 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:13,600 you use it etc strategically 470 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:17,520 in your sales use etc etc the way you 471 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:22,559 address uh your public now you have this 472 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:26,320 and every founder today I know that uses 473 00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:29,200 something that that is merely informatic 474 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:32,320 uh says we use artificial intelligence 475 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:36,720 to do this this this this everyone one 476 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:38,400 is telling me the same. So how do I 477 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,520 perceive 478 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:44,720 your uniqueness? How how do I perceive 479 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:48,240 your unique selling proposal there? 480 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:51,520 Okay, so we have a proprietary 481 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:54,240 uh uh way of addressing AI. Okay, this 482 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:59,200 is another uh uh way to address it and 483 00:26:54,240 --> 00:27:03,760 this is proper but you know uh uh um not 484 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:06,799 not many uh do this uh these days and 485 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,240 and it's also it's always the same 486 00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:08,720 speech now. 487 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,679 >> Yeah, 488 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,679 >> this is wrong. This is specifically 489 00:27:11,679 --> 00:27:17,760 wrong. No, we started from something 490 00:27:13,679 --> 00:27:21,760 that was uh specifically determined 491 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:24,880 that is the the the the marketing uh um 492 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:28,400 concept unique selling proposal etc. And 493 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:31,679 you come today uh with your pitch and 494 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:35,279 then you you put your effort on etc and 495 00:27:31,679 --> 00:27:38,080 say something that every everybody is 496 00:27:35,279 --> 00:27:43,200 saying. So this is just wrong you know. 497 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:48,320 So what do you have uh uh of uniquely uh 498 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:52,559 determined and what is the effect 499 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:55,679 that this uh uniqueness you have on what 500 00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:58,640 is the effect of this to you know your 501 00:27:55,679 --> 00:28:01,200 public to your market etc. And and so 502 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,919 this is this is the the the simple basis 503 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:07,840 you know of business but we are losing 504 00:28:03,919 --> 00:28:10,480 it somehow because of the averages 505 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:14,559 that we are creating. So and more and 506 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:19,600 more and this will uh become 507 00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:23,120 uh um more specific average. So it's it 508 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,320 seems to me like the business community, 509 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:26,720 the founder community, the 510 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,039 entrepreneurial community is undergoing 511 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,440 a shift from 512 00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:33,360 hey I can make a web page. No well now 513 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:37,520 everyone can make a web page. There's 514 00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:40,559 just a level of averess that has sort of 515 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:45,039 up the bar. So now everybody needs to go 516 00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:48,000 above that and to the next level of 517 00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:49,919 >> let's raise the bar right in terms of 518 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,080 your unique selling proposition. 519 00:28:49,919 --> 00:28:55,600 >> But I mean it has always been like this 520 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:58,240 but now today you have an explosion of 521 00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,960 this but it has always been like this. 522 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,480 Why? Because it's called uh uh 523 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,799 competitiveness. 524 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,480 Yeah. 525 00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:09,039 >> You know uh uh you have to set the bar 526 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,120 higher than your competitor. 527 00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:13,279 But you have to understand what your 528 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:16,720 competitor is and you have to understand 529 00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:19,039 as well. You have to comp to understand 530 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,640 what you have of you know your 531 00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:23,600 uniqueness 532 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:28,480 and the paradigm shift I was telling you 533 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:30,080 about uh the the beneficial aspect of it 534 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,679 precisely 535 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:37,039 for your interlocutor. Interruptor can 536 00:29:33,679 --> 00:29:41,120 be for example an investor that you are 537 00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:43,840 talking to during a pitch or uh your 538 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:46,000 large market etc etc. So the more 539 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:48,480 precise you have this clear in your 540 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:53,440 mind, 541 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:56,240 the more uh uh you can gain uh um 542 00:29:53,440 --> 00:30:00,159 anything you you desire from it, you 543 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:03,919 know. And uh so now the behavioral part 544 00:30:00,159 --> 00:30:08,000 the behavioral aspect of it is mainly 545 00:30:03,919 --> 00:30:12,159 the ability to determine to determine 546 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:17,279 uh who your interrogator are and the way 547 00:30:12,159 --> 00:30:21,039 he moves what are his uh what his pre 548 00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:24,159 priorities are etc etc etc. So just for 549 00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:26,799 you to understand this is quite specific 550 00:30:24,159 --> 00:30:30,080 and it must be 551 00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:33,120 so now just you know everybody is doing 552 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:36,640 uh something they are not getting 553 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:39,919 specific uh and uh of about what they're 554 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:43,360 doing and they are not getting specific 555 00:30:39,919 --> 00:30:45,440 of the bene the benefits that they are 556 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:49,279 promoting and they are not being 557 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:51,360 specific on about the the their 558 00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:55,760 interlocator the definition of it. So, 559 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:57,279 we have more tools at your uh at our uh 560 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,919 disposal, 561 00:30:57,279 --> 00:31:03,120 but you are you're not using the proper 562 00:30:59,919 --> 00:31:06,480 way, you know. So, we have to understand 563 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:09,440 this because you cannot be blind on it. 564 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:13,760 I I just had a image in my head. I don't 565 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:15,919 know if F1 is the is the uh analogy 566 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,880 here, but maybe it's NASCAR, but that 567 00:31:15,919 --> 00:31:21,600 everybody has the same engine in the 568 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:26,799 car. It's just the driver now needs to 569 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:29,120 know uh where to steer if it's a not a a 570 00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:32,480 straightforward track, but the track is 571 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,720 open and everybody has the same power in 572 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:37,360 a way with these models. 573 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:40,799 >> Yes, it it it does not apply to Formula 574 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:44,080 1 specifically, but yes, your example is 575 00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:48,000 correct, you know. So what uh uh what 576 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:50,880 makes you uh different 577 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:54,720 you know and so this is the this is uh 578 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:58,480 uh the starting point of of any business 579 00:31:54,720 --> 00:32:02,399 and uh so we are losing it somehow and I 580 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:06,640 perceive it also uh uh I I you know I 581 00:32:02,399 --> 00:32:09,679 talk uh to many people from different uh 582 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:13,919 uh perspectives and in different I have 583 00:32:09,679 --> 00:32:16,320 three operations uh um uh going on uh 584 00:32:13,919 --> 00:32:18,399 through Luri group. And so we we have 585 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:23,760 different ways to approach each one of 586 00:32:18,399 --> 00:32:27,039 them and uh each each uh demand uh of 587 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:30,480 those. And so uh we understand this from 588 00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:33,919 many points of view and from each one of 589 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:37,279 these points of view we perceive the 590 00:32:33,919 --> 00:32:41,600 exact uh same thing. So you have to go 591 00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:46,640 very very high in in terms of uh 592 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:49,600 specificity uh um efficiency uh demand 593 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:52,159 to understand that people are acting the 594 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,399 proper way from this point of view and 595 00:32:52,159 --> 00:32:59,039 the the the formula one example is 596 00:32:54,399 --> 00:33:02,480 exactly this you know so how do you uh 597 00:32:59,039 --> 00:33:05,760 turn yourself to be uh uh relevant and 598 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:10,240 they they use it they use their tools 599 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:12,320 in the proper way. If I if you know just 600 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,640 imagine if they didn't 601 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,960 >> Yeah. 602 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:17,440 >> it would lose everything. And so you 603 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,919 have founders, you have entrepreneurs 604 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,080 etc. that you know you you must 605 00:33:19,919 --> 00:33:25,279 understand that if you don't do it the 606 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,440 proper way, you're just losing money and 607 00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:30,960 possibilities. 608 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:34,720 That is the the main the main reason why 609 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:36,880 you should be getting up in the morning. 610 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,919 create possibilities, create uh uh 611 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:42,159 things, etc. Please. 612 00:33:39,919 --> 00:33:45,519 >> I think it's you're absolutely right. 613 00:33:42,159 --> 00:33:47,279 It's like we have such great tools now 614 00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:49,679 and a lot of people don't know what to 615 00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:52,000 build. They don't know where to steer. 616 00:33:49,679 --> 00:33:54,559 They don't know what to focus on. And I 617 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:57,919 think it's a it's an interesting time 618 00:33:54,559 --> 00:34:00,799 that even myself, it's like I can build 619 00:33:57,919 --> 00:34:03,360 so many things. I can open up my my dev 620 00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:05,760 tools and they're quite powerful and 621 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,279 amazing. It's just what do you want to 622 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,040 build? What do you what what do you 623 00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:10,720 want? Where's the unique selling 624 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,079 proposition? Where's the value that's 625 00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:14,320 create being created? Where's the 626 00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:15,839 benefits that are being created? And I 627 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,280 guess you're seeing this on a larger 628 00:34:15,839 --> 00:34:22,960 level. But the one uh thing I'm also 629 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:26,159 interested in is there are organizations 630 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:28,320 that are a lot slower to move. 631 00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:31,599 There are huge organizations that are 632 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,520 possibly being disrupted. Um, and 633 00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:36,320 acquisitions 634 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:38,159 are happening quite fast because big 635 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,720 organizations are seeing smaller 636 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,679 organizations meet that product market 637 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:44,560 fit 638 00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:46,320 >> quite quickly and they're just let let's 639 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,359 bring you in house type of thing, right? 640 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:53,599 Like are you seeing a lot of that? 641 00:34:49,359 --> 00:34:57,119 >> Yes. uh um you know about speed. Yes, 642 00:34:53,599 --> 00:35:01,920 everything is moving uh quite faster and 643 00:34:57,119 --> 00:35:05,760 you have uh finance that is uh moving 644 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:10,960 quite fast as well and um you have more 645 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:13,920 access nowadays and uh you you have you 646 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:16,160 know when you start to operate 647 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,000 uh bigger and bigger you start to 648 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:21,839 operate globally. 649 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:23,760 >> Mhm. And so you have a global scope and 650 00:35:21,839 --> 00:35:26,079 in everything you do. It's not 651 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:29,680 international anymore. You know, you 652 00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:34,480 have a a global scope. We we we work in 653 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:37,119 with uh 28 countries uh today. And so we 654 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,280 have different cultures. We have uh 655 00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:43,119 different ways of approaching things 656 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:47,839 etc. And you know it's it's it's the way 657 00:35:43,119 --> 00:35:52,000 uh things are moving now. And so um 658 00:35:47,839 --> 00:35:54,800 you you must be more efficient. 659 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,599 >> So you must be more competitive in 660 00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:03,040 anything you do and you must use your 661 00:35:57,599 --> 00:36:06,000 tools in the most proper uh way possible 662 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:09,200 you know that's just it you know so you 663 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:14,160 have bigger companies etc. Yes, you have 664 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:17,040 damn uh uh fagositating uh eating uh um 665 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:19,760 but but it has always been like this. 666 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:22,960 But now we have more access and more 667 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:27,040 visibility uh to these uh dynamic to 668 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:30,720 these uh dynamics. And uh also just for 669 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:35,599 you to understand a a perspective of 670 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:39,040 ours and how do we manage it and again 671 00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:42,880 it starts from uh neuroscience as well. 672 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:45,839 No, because one of uh the assumptions 673 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:48,800 let's say the premises uh that we have 674 00:36:45,839 --> 00:36:50,320 from a neuroscientific uh uh point of 675 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:55,680 view 676 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:59,440 uh is conceptually speaking is uh each 677 00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:03,920 uh each brain works the same way. So we 678 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:07,839 do not consider uh the person from as 679 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:09,920 culturally determined but biologically 680 00:37:07,839 --> 00:37:13,599 determined. 681 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:17,839 And so just just uh um we we we start 682 00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:20,960 from the origins of behavior of anyone 683 00:37:17,839 --> 00:37:24,000 uh we are uh talking to. And so this is 684 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:26,160 a huge advant advantage also 685 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:30,240 scientifically speaking uh is a huge 686 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:34,640 advantage uh for our businesses and uh 687 00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:38,320 for each and every uh uh dynamic uh we 688 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:42,720 operate in and we create in a in a in 689 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:45,680 this scale let's say the global scale as 690 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:47,599 well. So this is a huge advantage. And 691 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:52,800 so 692 00:37:47,599 --> 00:37:55,200 if I uh should if I could evaluate our 693 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,040 competitiveness, our competitive 694 00:37:55,200 --> 00:38:00,240 advantage 695 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:02,640 inside this scale say it's working. You 696 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:04,480 know, for this uh specific point of 697 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,599 view, 698 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:11,280 I've heard and with the people I'm 699 00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:14,320 talking to, AI is one technology. 700 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:18,160 There are other technologies that AI 701 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:22,240 will enable but they are as 702 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:26,240 I guess transforming as AI. You you talk 703 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:29,520 about robotics. You talk about quantum 704 00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:31,599 and quantum computing. 705 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,839 These are all coming around at the same 706 00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:36,240 time. Has there ever been a time like 707 00:38:33,839 --> 00:38:38,400 this in history? Like is this 708 00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:40,320 >> what what is the next 10 years going to 709 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,880 look like? And which of those 710 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:47,200 technologies are you excited about? 711 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:50,320 >> Uh uh you know Johan uh we have this uh 712 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:52,880 I don't want to to say uh uh it is an 713 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:58,880 illusion let's say but let's remember 714 00:38:52,880 --> 00:39:02,320 that uh men humankind started to fly 715 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:04,480 and just a few years later he went to 716 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,880 the moon. 717 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:10,000 It's it's it's it's not that far, you 718 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:14,480 know. It's we're talking about uh uh not 719 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:18,000 that many years. Uh uh so things have 720 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:21,680 always moved very very fast in in 721 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:24,800 everything uh uh we made for just for 722 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:29,440 you uh uh to to understand my point of 723 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:33,839 view. you had uh illuminism 724 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:37,119 that gave us access to the human being 725 00:39:33,839 --> 00:39:41,200 as biologically determined 726 00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:43,839 and so from from it's not uh uh far from 727 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:48,240 from uh where we are now. So just 728 00:39:43,839 --> 00:39:52,480 imagine what what it uh represented 729 00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:56,160 from illuminism to uh uh our present 730 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:59,119 day. And so this is a huge explosion of 731 00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:02,480 knowledge from that because of you know 732 00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:06,320 religion and the divine access to human 733 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:09,359 beings etc. So before that we couldn't 734 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:11,200 access uh to human beings as as 735 00:40:09,359 --> 00:40:14,640 biologically determined. It's just an 736 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:17,760 example. So uh uh from that period of 737 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:20,640 time to today we have a uh we are 738 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:23,599 talking about neuromarketing now between 739 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:26,720 us you know we are talking about the the 740 00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:30,720 the specificity of [snorts] uh brain 741 00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:34,880 activity and so from this specifically 742 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:37,839 from this you ask me about uh the future 743 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:40,400 and maybe priorities from a a business 744 00:40:37,839 --> 00:40:43,680 point of view you know you have all the 745 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:46,800 the the biological 746 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:51,599 uh advances. Okay. But uh you know just 747 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:55,040 imagine what uh uh can represent 748 00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:59,200 the union between everything we know 749 00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:03,280 from a neuroscientific point of view and 750 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:05,040 robotics and everything is informatic. 751 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:08,000 So 752 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:11,920 you know uh the first uh uh the first 753 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:14,400 things uh come to my mind is BMI so 754 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:17,440 brain machine interface. 755 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:20,480 Okay. So this is something we have uh uh 756 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:23,839 invested in uh since its its inception 757 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:27,440 since its beginning and we are uh uh 758 00:41:23,839 --> 00:41:30,640 quite pioneers in that just you know so 759 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:34,400 this is something I believe in uh very 760 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:37,440 very much and I am actually I am 761 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:41,680 available to to put my money in it you 762 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:45,040 know like like I have already uh done 763 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:48,640 and been doing uh uh since you know it's 764 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:51,680 years already and so and so just imagine 765 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:56,480 what uh 766 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:59,520 you know what future will become 767 00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:01,520 you know putting together in the same uh 768 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,040 batch 769 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,520 biological 770 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:10,319 uh advancement 771 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:13,200 uh AI and brain machine interfaces. So 772 00:42:10,319 --> 00:42:14,720 just just imagine that what can become 773 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,440 for 774 00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:22,000 you know uh military 775 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:24,400 u efficiency in in business, efficiency 776 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:27,359 in knowledge etc etc. So access to 777 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:30,319 knowledge. So we we will have an 778 00:42:27,359 --> 00:42:33,200 exponential uh growth uh from this point 779 00:42:30,319 --> 00:42:36,880 of view also. This is a a huge 780 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:40,079 advancement in um cognition, 781 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:42,880 >> right? Okay. And uh from many points of 782 00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:45,280 view and also the therapeutic 783 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:48,160 uh uh uh of it, you know, the 784 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,319 therapeutical approach of it, what can 785 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:53,920 become? 786 00:42:50,319 --> 00:42:56,160 So what you're saying is that LLMs by 787 00:42:53,920 --> 00:43:01,040 themselves 788 00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:05,040 and is is is not the way but the com 789 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:07,760 combination between the human brain 790 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:10,319 and this is what's going to cause an 791 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:12,079 exponential growth in things and and how 792 00:43:10,319 --> 00:43:15,760 far do you see that? Like I already 793 00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:18,560 carry my smartphone. Uh people they're 794 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:21,040 tied to their smartphone. Um, and but 795 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,800 you're saying there's a link there that 796 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:27,680 it can be a lot faster and more 797 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:29,280 efficient with a human uh brain machine 798 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:32,560 interface. 799 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:36,960 How how and you're investing into it. 800 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:40,480 So, how tight do you see that 801 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:43,599 integration being and what are your 802 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,880 thoughts on that and predictions about 803 00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:50,000 that? 804 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:53,280 >> Okay. uh um how tight 100%. Just imagine 805 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:55,440 I I think if if I have to to you are 806 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,880 asking me something that is very 807 00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:02,319 difficult to determine of course so uh 808 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:06,640 uh we don't have our we can imagine how 809 00:44:02,319 --> 00:44:10,400 things will be okay and um if you know 810 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:13,839 asking me to imagine it I think uh every 811 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:16,720 one of us will have an interface applied 812 00:44:13,839 --> 00:44:18,800 to our brains okay because it will be 813 00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:24,000 the the the new normal 814 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:26,319 the new regular uh way of uh living just 815 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:30,079 like our smartphone, you know, because 816 00:44:26,319 --> 00:44:32,480 you will reach a level from from uh 817 00:44:30,079 --> 00:44:35,200 example from 818 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:38,079 uh um 819 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:41,760 you know operational point of view, from 820 00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:46,319 a u medical point of view etc etc. You 821 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:49,040 will have the the the the most advanced 822 00:44:46,319 --> 00:44:52,640 piece of matter we know about in the 823 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:57,040 universe that is our brain 824 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:59,680 applied to the most advanced 825 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:03,040 technology we have at your at our 826 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:07,760 disposal. Now there is AI and machine 827 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:10,880 learning uh uh context of of uh uh 828 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:15,280 operating etc. And so we have the union 829 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:17,200 of this. I think in this union resides 830 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:22,480 our future 831 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:25,119 from any point of view diagnosis uh um 832 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,839 you know oper anything is operation 833 00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:30,800 because we we have to understand that uh 834 00:45:27,839 --> 00:45:34,160 um you have millions of years of 835 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:39,200 evolution that 836 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:44,400 guided us and make us be what we are. 837 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:47,760 And we have uh uh our nervous systems 838 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:53,599 that are the most advanced uh part of of 839 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:58,240 what we are and our brain is uh the most 840 00:45:53,599 --> 00:46:02,079 advanced part of a new nervous system. 841 00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:06,000 Okay. And so this is uh I I think it's 842 00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:09,760 inevitable to see the union of of this 843 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:13,440 all and the the the 844 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:18,240 you know the the growth of our cognitive 845 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:22,400 ability because of it and as as anything 846 00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:25,440 that comes to us at at our disposal you 847 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:28,800 have uh uh you have to choose how let's 848 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:32,480 say choose how to use it. Okay. if use 849 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:35,680 it as a tool in order to to improve what 850 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:40,640 you are and what you do etc. just like 851 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:45,680 normal regular AI now. And the the the 852 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:49,359 most smart the smartest uh way to to to 853 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:52,000 use it just like it was and it is the 854 00:46:49,359 --> 00:46:54,720 internet and everything we have. I can 855 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:59,359 use YouTube 856 00:46:54,720 --> 00:47:01,280 to see something very very use as as as 857 00:46:59,359 --> 00:47:05,040 your podcast for example. I can choose 858 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:07,680 to see it or I can choose uh uh not to 859 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,200 to you know I don't mean no lack of 860 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:12,000 disrespect 861 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:17,839 about it but I can see so I can choose 862 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:21,760 to see uh a duck you know uh uh you know 863 00:47:17,839 --> 00:47:24,160 just circling around you know a pot you 864 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:27,920 know you can choose it let's say you can 865 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:31,839 choose it but today I choose to uh uh 866 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:34,319 watch something very useful and of the 867 00:47:31,839 --> 00:47:36,880 highest level possible like your podcast 868 00:47:34,319 --> 00:47:39,440 and specifically our interview of 869 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:45,280 course. [laughter] 870 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:49,440 Is there a downside to human machine 871 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:54,640 interaction? Yes. Yes. Of course. as any 872 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:58,720 uh technology uh the manipulative side 873 00:47:54,640 --> 00:48:02,880 of it you know because 874 00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:05,599 that that's where uh regulation reside I 875 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:11,040 see okay and so just like the internet 876 00:48:05,599 --> 00:48:15,359 as I told you if if you you know 877 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:18,240 you if you use these tools 878 00:48:15,359 --> 00:48:23,119 or everything we have at at our disposal 879 00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:26,480 proposal in a manipulative way it 880 00:48:23,119 --> 00:48:29,119 becomes negative for humankind. 881 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:33,440 Okay. But so it's it's something ethical 882 00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:36,079 here that we have to to address. I can 883 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,559 use it just like neuroscience just like 884 00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:42,640 everything we have at our disposal. You 885 00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:45,280 can uh use it in a destructive way and 886 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:48,720 you can use it in a constructive way. 887 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:52,800 Okay. So everything we are and so if if 888 00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:55,839 you apply greed to this for example it 889 00:48:52,800 --> 00:49:00,559 depends greed for money 890 00:48:55,839 --> 00:49:04,559 >> it's one thing greed for knowledge 891 00:49:00,559 --> 00:49:06,640 let's let's uh uh let's accept it you 892 00:49:04,559 --> 00:49:08,319 know and uh just it's not it's not 893 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:12,480 called greed but just for you to 894 00:49:08,319 --> 00:49:16,880 understand uh uh the the the hunger for 895 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:19,119 uh beautiful things the hunger for uh um 896 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:24,079 you know possibilities etc knowledge 897 00:49:19,119 --> 00:49:28,720 etc. And so there are uh uh downsizes of 898 00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:31,200 it and this is a huge one for example 899 00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:34,319 >> uh it's a it's like it seems like this 900 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:38,240 may be the conversation that happens in 901 00:49:34,319 --> 00:49:40,240 the next 5 to 10 years. It's like 902 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:43,359 >> where does this go? And it's going to 903 00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:45,599 play out you know day by day and and 904 00:49:43,359 --> 00:49:48,640 month by month and quarter by quarter. 905 00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:52,000 Uh we are still very 906 00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:55,359 uh to your point very greed driven very 907 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:57,359 profit driven which is a good thing. Um 908 00:49:55,359 --> 00:49:59,839 however we do need to sort of balance 909 00:49:57,359 --> 00:50:00,480 that out with the ethical side of things 910 00:49:59,839 --> 00:50:03,920 and uh 911 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:06,880 >> yes yes is anything uh from my point of 912 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:10,079 view is is anything Johan. So you have 913 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:14,400 uh Europe now nowadays 914 00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:18,720 uh there are willing to that is Europe 915 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:21,440 as a government is willing to regulate 916 00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:26,240 what we do. you have Australia that is 917 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:29,599 uh preventing uh the the the youngest to 918 00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:33,200 access for example uh social media et 919 00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:37,520 and so you have different realities uh 920 00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:42,559 nowadays or in terms of how you uh uh 921 00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:45,760 approach these new uh frontiers you know 922 00:50:42,559 --> 00:50:49,359 and um so it's it's it's 923 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:51,760 the way things go. Now how do I do 924 00:50:49,359 --> 00:50:56,400 there? There is one premise here that is 925 00:50:51,760 --> 00:51:01,280 very very important and that is 926 00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:04,800 um you know ethically speaking 927 00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:09,280 uh we have human beings that are quite 928 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:12,319 fragile from a cognitive point of view. 929 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:15,200 Okay. And so uh we have extreme 930 00:51:12,319 --> 00:51:19,280 difficulties 931 00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:22,160 between our present action and our 932 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:25,040 long-term goals. This is one of the 933 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:28,480 fundamentals, one of the premises we 934 00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:32,240 have at our disposal. For example, uh in 935 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:35,200 in behavioral economics, the reason why 936 00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:37,200 behavioral economics are very important 937 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:39,280 nowadays, 938 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:42,319 extremely important. So and this is the 939 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:47,040 basis of of what we do uh as well and 940 00:51:42,319 --> 00:51:50,800 basis of successes uh u you have to be 941 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:55,040 uh very clear about it. You have to uh 942 00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:58,640 reach a certain level of clarity between 943 00:51:55,040 --> 00:52:02,319 your present action and your long-term 944 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:04,480 uh goal. And so this is this requires an 945 00:52:02,319 --> 00:52:08,880 enormous effort from a cognitive point 946 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:14,000 of view, you know. And so um yes we are 947 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:17,599 facing this but with a with um you know 948 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:21,440 with quite a a fragile human being there 949 00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:23,599 that is being approached by these 950 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:27,520 technologies. So this is this is 951 00:52:23,599 --> 00:52:32,240 something to to look at very very uh in 952 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:34,400 in a robust act ethic ethical uh uh um 953 00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:37,520 approach. 954 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:39,599 You know, I we've already hit 50 minutes 955 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:43,119 and it's fascinating that it time went 956 00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:46,079 that fast, but um I think I love your 957 00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:47,440 web page. It's it's the it's a brain and 958 00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:50,720 it's gold 959 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:53,680 >> and it's it's just 960 00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:57,359 >> um Thank you very much for it. 961 00:52:53,680 --> 00:53:01,359 >> Yeah, it it really shows what you feel 962 00:52:57,359 --> 00:53:03,520 about the human brain and how important 963 00:53:01,359 --> 00:53:05,200 it is. And that's the one takeaway I 964 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:08,400 would I I want to take from this 965 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:11,040 interview for myself is that there is so 966 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,760 much power there in our brain. It's a 967 00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:17,760 golden device and it's to be cherished 968 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:19,599 and it's to be used uh there is a lot of 969 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,280 potential in it, right? And I think 970 00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:22,800 that's 971 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,800 >> Yeah. Where can we keep up with you, 972 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:29,599 Victor? And uh where can we know more 973 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:32,960 about uh what you're up to? 974 00:53:29,599 --> 00:53:37,280 >> You know, just first step would be ask 975 00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:41,119 me just just everything is is open. 976 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:45,200 uh you know we are expanding a lot and 977 00:53:41,119 --> 00:53:48,640 um we are working with very strictly 978 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:52,160 with uh the Middle East specifically we 979 00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:55,920 are embracing for example vision 2030 in 980 00:53:52,160 --> 00:54:00,000 Saudi Arabia so we are making you are 981 00:53:55,920 --> 00:54:03,680 making it we are making it ours and um 982 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:07,200 so it's everything we do is long-termed 983 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:09,599 and um from also from a a legacy point 984 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:12,960 of view. So it's very important for us 985 00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:17,119 to understand uh uh that everything we 986 00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:19,680 do means legacy as well because of the 987 00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:22,960 origin of our capital. This family 988 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:25,760 capital because of uh uh you know the 989 00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:27,680 scientific approach of what we do and 990 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:31,839 actually 991 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:36,800 this is we are moving uh fast. We are 992 00:54:31,839 --> 00:54:39,680 always uh willing to uh follow 993 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:42,800 uh the the the the all the possibilities 994 00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:45,920 that that we have at our uh disposal 995 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:48,079 from uh technologies 996 00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:50,960 uh from you know many points of view 997 00:54:48,079 --> 00:54:53,920 from finance etc point of view and so 998 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:56,720 and also we have many many uh 999 00:54:53,920 --> 00:55:00,079 possibilities nowadays with uh gene 1000 00:54:56,720 --> 00:55:03,040 therapy for therapy for example and uh 1001 00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:06,400 from, you know, the biological aspects 1002 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:10,319 of uh uh what we are and [snorts] 1003 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:14,079 um you know 1004 00:55:10,319 --> 00:55:17,839 everything that that uh biology itself 1005 00:55:14,079 --> 00:55:23,760 can offer us and uh something that that 1006 00:55:17,839 --> 00:55:27,119 we are uh approaching uh these days is 1007 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:29,440 uh a company it it it can be public. 1008 00:55:27,119 --> 00:55:33,280 because since you asked me about it, 1009 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:36,160 it's EVIS the the name of the company 1010 00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:39,839 and we are already discussing we are 1011 00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:41,440 very very impressed by what they are 1012 00:55:39,839 --> 00:55:45,280 achieving 1013 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:47,359 they they you know 1014 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:52,480 it's it's it's interesting because we 1015 00:55:47,359 --> 00:55:56,319 are talking about uh uh RNA 1016 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:59,359 and so we have their proprietary 1017 00:55:56,319 --> 00:56:02,720 platform form to load ex extracellular 1018 00:55:59,359 --> 00:56:06,000 vesicles the are the the natural 1019 00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:10,400 messengers of the bay of the of our 1020 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:14,319 bodies and they are able to load these 1021 00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:17,760 extracellular vesicles with RNAs 1022 00:56:14,319 --> 00:56:20,559 which is a uh something extremely 1023 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:23,200 difficult that that they managed to to 1024 00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:28,079 achieve and this is also uh something 1025 00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:30,880 that I uh I am following in very very uh 1026 00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:33,520 strictly and very very uh with 1027 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:36,000 proximity, you know, because we think 1028 00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:41,040 this is this is something that that has 1029 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:45,119 a an immense and very very um 1030 00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:47,359 potential future there. So this is only 1031 00:56:45,119 --> 00:56:50,960 an example of course but it's a valid 1032 00:56:47,359 --> 00:56:53,760 one and also it it reveals 1033 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:57,359 from a financial and investment point of 1034 00:56:53,760 --> 00:57:00,160 view what means all that legacy and 1035 00:56:57,359 --> 00:57:02,640 long-term vision that we have. It's not 1036 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:05,760 only real estate for example real estate 1037 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:09,680 vision 2030 is it is something that it's 1038 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:13,280 immense as an approach and it's it's for 1039 00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:16,640 long term because of the size of it. 1040 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:20,160 Okay. And uh but 1041 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:24,720 from relationship between technology 1042 00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:28,000 and AI and brains etc. as we discussed 1043 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:32,319 before we have BMI we have brain machine 1044 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:35,920 interfaces and also why not from a 1045 00:57:32,319 --> 00:57:40,240 specifically uh determined biological 1046 00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:42,880 approach to life so biotechnology etc. 1047 00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:47,280 we have this kind of of examples. So 1048 00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:51,040 from the projects to brains to uh 1049 00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:54,240 uh biology itself etc. And the example 1050 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:58,000 is is is evis 1051 00:57:54,240 --> 00:58:01,680 that we are uh uh approaching right now. 1052 00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:06,240 So this is quite a a interesting uh 1053 00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:10,000 period of of our uh time for us I mean 1054 00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:13,280 for our company. Yeah. I I bet it's it's 1055 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:16,319 every every investor and capital 1056 00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:18,880 allocator is just like very excited 1057 00:58:16,319 --> 00:58:20,319 right now. I think like they they see a 1058 00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:23,119 potential to 1059 00:58:20,319 --> 00:58:25,599 >> shape the future which is what this 1060 00:58:23,119 --> 00:58:27,520 podcast discusses as well. I wanted to 1061 00:58:25,599 --> 00:58:29,599 say thank you Victor for coming on the 1062 00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:32,960 show. It's been quite fascinating and 1063 00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:36,480 this will be clipped up and delivered to 1064 00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:38,160 the my mass audiences and it across all 1065 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,920 channels and I just wanted to say thank 1066 00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:41,599 you for taking the time today uh and 1067 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:44,799 coming on and explaining 1068 00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:47,440 >> you know I I loved the possibility and 1069 00:58:44,799 --> 00:58:50,000 the perspective of uh this interview 1070 00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:52,799 since I knew you for the first time. 1071 00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:55,359 Well, it's it's uh for me it's it was 1072 00:58:52,799 --> 00:58:58,559 very interesting. You delivered uh 1073 00:58:55,359 --> 00:59:00,880 absolutely that interest that I that I 1074 00:58:58,559 --> 00:59:04,240 had perceived from the first time 1075 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:07,920 talking to you and with you and uh so it 1076 00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:11,040 was a privilege for me not just you know 1077 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:13,680 not because uh many people will will see 1078 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:16,319 it etc. Not just that you know but 1079 00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:18,240 because I I found it very interesting 1080 00:59:16,319 --> 00:59:22,799 and I thank you for that. Absolutely. 1081 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:26,079 So, it was my uh privilege for it. 1082 00:59:22,799 --> 00:59:26,079 >> Thank you so much for saying that.